What a moron! - Page 3

I'm going to do my own reseach on it. The thing that really gets me is that it's implied that Formula feeding Moms are "Poisoning" their babies. (I'm not poisoning my baby and take serious offense to the implication.) That's uncalled for. Especially in a thread that's supposed to be talking about how inappropriate the lawyer/journalist was for her comments. It wasn't supposed to be a soapbox for breastfeeding vs. formula feeding.

Also.... just a question.... and I'm asking as a serious consideration. If the water in 3rd world countries is so bad for formula feeding, wouldn't it go through in the breast milk? It's the same source of water that the Mother would be consuming to provide the breastmilk, would it not? Just a thought.

In a way, yes. In a way no. Breastmilk is pretty much sterile. As far as I know breastmilk does not pass on bacterial agents. Of course, the mother could die from the water, but regardless of her choices, she would still have to drink water. Look up formula recalls. There have been like 14 formula recalls in the last 10 or fifteen years, mainly for stuff like glass.

If the mother was drinking water filled with mercury, lead or pesticides, yes, that would probably pass on through to the child. It would also pass through if she were using the same water to make formula. Also look up the statistics from the World Health Organization. That's where I got my information when I researched it about a year ago.

I'm not sure about tobacco products. I imagine that smoke byproducts are also passing through into the milk. However, if a mother smokes around her baby regardless of her feeding method, the baby is getting second hand smoke.

Here's a site about it - http://www.breastfeeding.com/advocac...y_recalls.html

It is a breastfeeding site, but it gives a link to the federal government's site on the page. Remember in the US, you can easily hear about or find this information. So don't feel about about feeding formula, because there have been a number of formula recalls. It's women living in places like Cameroon, who need to worry about this the most, because of they have problems with literacy or even contacting the formula companies when there is a problem. So it could easily go unreported in places like that.

Here's the link to the WHO breastfeeding page - http://www.who.int/topics/breastfeeding/en/

It has a lot of information on materal and newborn health not just breastfeeding issues.

I do believe “slamming” formula is totally different than “slamming” those that choose to use it. Just because the item you HAVE to use or CHOOSE to use is being talked about does not mean that you are being talked about. I personally have never slammed anyone for their choice in formula. I do however, have issues with formula itself.
The difference in our comments about formula is that our comments are proven facts!!! FACTS … sometimes reality is hard to swallow. The LAWYER (she is not a journalist) is simply bashing the mother for breastfeeding her child in front of her. Nobody said breastfeeding moms are perfect .. but breastmilk is the perfect food for a baby. FACT
I’m personally sorry if anything I’ve said hurt anyone’s feelings. However, nothing I’ve said here is not a proven fact and nothing that your lactaction consultant or any other person will not tell you or can find out for themselves.

YES .. but there again, most of these situations other than diseases are STILL safer and better for your baby than formula!

I had to have a c-scan and various other test done while nursing Kale .. never stopped. Heck, I even had surgery and he never missed a feeding. Does this make me perfect or a supermom .. NO. Determined maybe .. but not perfect by far. I do know that MANY things you are told are myths .. research them for yourselves. I did and Kale was perfectly healthy and still is not because I nursed him .. but I do know that it helped. What they dont' tell you is that almost EVERYTHING that is safe for you to take is safe for the baby .. other than toxic mixes (lthose nasty liquids you drink) and chemo. The fact is that these medications have not been tested on babies .. heck who would volunteer for that study!?!? I do know that most medications (and I don't remember the percentage) are broken down so greatly by your body that only a small percentage is passed through your breastmilk.

Even in the water you use to mix your babies formula with!

Like I said before .. TO SOME babies it can be poison. So can a simple cold medication. We have to do what is best for our children. The benefits from formula WAY outweigh the risks from it, but it does kill.
It is a proven fact that your body’s milk produced antibodies to certain things that you are exposed to .. including illinesses. Maybe this is how breastmilk is safer than formula feeding. I dunno .. I’m lucky enough to live in the US.

I'm getting out of thie debate because it is a no win situation. Mothers will defend their right to bottle or breast feed to the death. We ALL know that breast is best. We ALL know that mother's have the right to nurse when they need to. We ALL need to educate ourselves more about what we give our children.

I agree. This has gotten way off topic. If there's anything further to add, start a thread in the great debate.

But hey how fantastic to see so many mothers defending their rights .. either way

Unfortunatly I feel the same way as Kimmer It is why I just don't mention what my child is eating. Then I won't have to hear how I'm poisoning my child or I'm not giving my baby the best. And no I don't believe that there is any difference in saying we are slamming formula not the people that use it.

For the record, I couldn't breastfeed Christian. He couldn't suck and the bottle was MUCH easier for him to suck--I know, I tried--no one tried for me so I don't want to read an article that says premature babies can breastfeed. Unless you had my boobs on your chest and my son in your arms, I don't want to hear it.

My children are alive even though I fed them poison and glass *gasp* And frankly, just because someone breastfeeds doesn't mean you are a good mother.

As for the lawyer. She is entitled to her view even though I don't agree with her. I'm sure she set out what she wanted to do---get attention. And I bet she is one of those people who would be happy to know that a many people HERE are p!ssed at her and a few are upset by people who they thought supported them in their choices.

Just remember as you have the right to slam this lady, she had the right to write what she did even if WE don't agree with her. I'd gladly tell her to eat in the bathroom but that would just give her more attention.

We really should thank God for formula, these women, like Kimmer, who could not breastfeed, their poor children could have died. I think that is why formula was made for babies with mommies that COULD NOT bf for a real reason.

yes lissa02 .. you are right..

food for thought While the F.D.A. does say the breast is best but.....be aware what's in your breast milk as well. Everything carries it's risk. Watch you're Iron and Vitamin D.

http://www.nap.edu/books/0309091500/html/50.html

RISKS OF BREASTFEEDING
Breastfeeding is not without potential nutritional risks. The best documented risks include iron deficiency (Duncan et al., 1985; Pisacane et al., 1995), vitamin D deficiency (Kreiter et al., 2000), and exposure to environmental toxins. The inability to sustain growth due to the low energy density of milk is relatively rare in the first 4 months of life in the breastfed infant. However there is great variability in the protein-energy density of human milk. Energy values may range from 15 to 24 kcal/oz. Most infants can overcome a lower-density milk by consuming a greater volume.

Iron deficiency is approximately twice as common in breastfed infants; up to 30 percent have iron deficiency anemia, and more than 60 percent of the anemic infants are also iron deficient at 12 months of age (Pisacane et al., 1995), although the etiology is unclear. The iron content of human milk is low: 0.5 mg/L compared with 10 to 12 mg/L in supplemented cow-milk formulas. The absorption rate, however, is considerably higher. Breastfed infants absorb up to 50 percent of consumed iron, compared with a 7- to 12-percent absorption rate for formula-fed infants (Fomon et al., 1993). The risk of iron deficiency increases after 4 months of age since most full-term infants are born with adequate iron stores to support hemoglobin synthesis through the first 4 months after birth.

There have been increasing reports of nutritional rickets in breastfed infants, particularly in northern climates (Kreiter et al., 2000). This is likely due to lack of sunlight exposure, which is increasingly common with the use of sunscreens and the tendency to cover infants for health or cultural reasons. Human milk, like cow milk, is very low in vitamin D, with average concentrations of 24 to 68 IU/L. Since infants consume less than 0.5 L of milk/ day in the first months of life, breastfed infants have vitamin D intake well below the Adequate Intake of 200 IU/day. With sun exposure this is not likely to be a problem. However infants born to mothers with vitamin D deficiency are at increased risk for rickets, as are those who are not exposed to the sun. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the Canadian Paediatric Society recently recommended supplementing all breastfed infants with 200 IU of vitamin D by 2 months of age (AAP, 2003; Canadian Paediatric Society, 1998).

Once you're a parent, you can always go wrong, no matter what you do.

While what the FDA has found may be true, If a child gets enough sunlight, there is the vitamin D that they need and a baby has enough iron in their system for the first 4-6 months, that is why babies should be introduced to iron fortified cereal by the time they are 6 months.

Nutritional information is a double edged sword. You just do the best you can. I had a dr who mouthed support of breastfeeding, but called me a child abuser because my dd was small and short. Well, now she's not breastfeeding and she's still small and short. My MIL was formula feed and so were all her sons and except for one, they are all small and short too. And the tall one isn't that tall and is really skinny.

If your dr does not support your choices, get another one that will. That's what I had to do. Even though my dd was only sick once in her first year, that dr sent me home in tears because he threated to turn me into CPS for breastfeeding.

If those of you who are are were formula feeding moms are feeling like you need more support, why not start another forum just for that? Because I certainlly have no clue or advice about formula. My dd got so sick on every single kind we tried that we were lucky not to have to hospitalize her for dehydration. My dd suffers from allergies to most dairy products and soy. It's a bit rare for that to happen, but considering all the allergies dh and I have, it's not surprising.

I don't think so, simply because I think that breastfeeding provides a natural filter for bacteria, etc. I breastfed Emily while I was sick with the flu and with a horrible stomach bug, and none of that was passed to her via my breastmilk, but had I kissed all over her, it would have been. I am no expert, but I am making a sort of educated guess and saying no I don't think that the contaminants in the water would be passed on to the baby via breastmilk.

Has anyone gotten a response from the "moran"? Here is the letter I emailed her and she responded back to me I will post both. Also thank you BeccaSue I used some info you posted.

Ms. Christine M. Flowers,

I realize that you may not even read my letter probably because you have gotten many people e-mailing you telling you how ignorant you are and really I don't care to hear back from you I just hope you read this. I also hope you check out this website www.breastfeed.com

I was appauled when I read your ignorant article. I realize this is a free country and you can feel and type what you think and have the right to your ignorant opinion, but what you wrote is outragous. Apparently you are not educated in the art of breastfeeding. Just because YOU are not comfortable seeing a baby nurse does not mean a woman who needs to feed her child should disappear into a restroom for YOUR comfort. I always see women feeding their children bottles out in public, so why should I as a nursing mother go and smell crap for an ignorant person's comfort? Do you eat your meals sitting on a toilet? This is 2005, you need to get off your high horse and realize that breasts are for feeding a baby. If YOU don't like it that's your problem not the mother or the child. Have you checked out the media lately? Hollywood is alot worse than a nursing mother in a mall. Showing everything! And they want to show everything! For example: http://tinypic.com/dw6eme.jpg
And you are not comfortable seeing a child latched on to his or her mother? We do not want to show our breasts to everyone and 9 times out of 10 we don't. And that 1 time is usually a child flipping the blanket off accidently and you probably won't even see the nipple. I do know that there are some women who do not care but that is the minority. And yes they need to cover up, But do not expect a mother who needs to feed her baby or child to disappear into a crap-room for you.

I have attached a picture to show you that we do not show our breasts when we are out in public. I was at a local Wal-Mart with my sister, a mother of 4 (plus I had my 2 with me) So instead of disappearing into a restroom (and leaving me with 5 young children), she decided to nurse her crying 3 month old as we were sitting down eating at the McDonalds. You know what, not one person had any idea that she was nursing. The picture shows why.

I will quote what you wrote in your article: "There are, of course, ways to accommodate both modesty and utility, allowing breast-feeding in certain areas and prohibiting it in others, just as we do with any activity that encroaches on the public domain, like smoking and playing loud music."

How can you COMPARE smoking and playing loud music with breastfeeding? I am lost for words with that. I would love to go on and on but I need to go nurse my 1 year old now.



Thank you for reading (if you have gotten this far)

Melissa Kramer

Mother of 2

Newton, NJ

She actually responded to my e-mail....

Dear Melissa:

I have read every one of the 234 emails I have received, most of them using, as you did, the words 'ignorant' (and many more words that can't be printed) I obviously hit a nerve, which was not my intention, but so be it. I would first say that my main point is courtesy and appropriate behavior in a professional office; I don't like having women take off their shirts, as my client did, in front of me, my secretary and three men who were in my waiting room. It is simply something I will not accept in my place of business, and just because I am a female and supposed to be 'enlightened' on these issues, I will not change my mind.

That said, I think that mothers who want to do the best for their children are magnificent, that they sacrifice a great deal for the welfare of their babies, that they are indeed good and honorable people, and that breastfeeding is preferable to bottle-feeding. I do, however, resent the attitude of breastfeeding mothers, who are as intolerant of bottle-feeding mothers as they accuse me, and bottle-feeding mothers of being. It is a two way street

In any event, I am grateful that you took the time to write to me without vitriol, trying to explain in a rational way your problems with my piece, and I wish you great joy and happiness with your family.

Regards,

Christine

She should have said in her letter that the woman pulled off her shirt completely. There's a big difference between a little flash and a peep show. Also, if she had a problem with the woman's nudity, she should have said something right there not waited until later. I believe in dealing with a person up front at the time. Yeah, I've nursed half naked at home, but never in public.

When you don't tell people the full story, don't expect them to read your mind. When your problem is someone removing their top completely, whether they are breastfeeding or not, you should say so. I saw a woman do that at Walmart last night and she wasn't breastfeeding. I have no idea why, she just decided to give the world a little show there.

In her article she complained once about this women lifting her shirt (changed it in the email to taking off her shirt) the rest of the article all she did was say how breastfeeding was a disgusting habit by comparing it with smoking and urinating in public and listening to loud music. And that it needed to be done in a restroom. THAT is what I had a problem with. And I never put down a bottle feeder like she is saying in her email. and I quote "I do, however, resent the attitude of breastfeeding mothers, who are as intolerant of bottle-feeding mothers as they accuse me, and bottle-feeding mothers of being. It is a two way street." I don't care if you bottlefeed breastfeed or whatever!! I am a breastfeeder and she is saying that I have a certain attitude towards bottlefeeders. What would that be cuz I didn't realize I had an attitude regarding this or at least showed an attitude. I thought I was just sticking up for my rights.

You're right, Lissa. She should not have made assumptions about you and all breastfeeding mothers that are untrue. In spite of her claims of intelligence and tolerance, she is very ignorant and intolerant. Instead of focusing on the thing that was inapproriate - public nudity - she went on a lashing tirade against all breastfeeding mothers. This is the first time I have ever heard of a breastfeeding mother removing her clothes completely in public to breastfeed.

Personally, I'm not fond of public nudity. My BIL and his wife are nudists and we've asked them to remain clothed in the presence of our child. If she had stuck with the topic - public nudity- she'd have gotten a lot more support. I'm assuming (maybe incorrectly ) that if a man pulled off his shirt or pants in her office, she would have been just as upset. Then again, maybe not.

Well, I've seen women breastfeeding their infant in public and I have seen people smoking AND urinating in public and of the 3, I would MUCH rather see the first one!

I know I don't have any children, thus no experience with breastfeeding but here is what I would have done if I were that lawyer: I would have found an unused office for my client (because I do believe restrooms are disgusting and are not meant for bf'ing). If the mother did perhaps not do this discreetly the lawyer has the right to be uncomfortable about it. Who knows...we were not all there so none of us really knew how much boob, if any, the mother showed.

I personally don't have any problems with mothers bf'ing in public. However if it is in a small office like that and there are others around, as the mother I would have mentioned that I have to feed my baby and asked if the lawyer was ok with feeding right there. That would have given the lawyer a chance to find an empty office or the lawyer to leave the room while the mother breastfed. I don't think I would have been angry enough to type an article or letter like Ms Flowers did though because to me that is assuming that every bf'ing mom is the same...but they are not. If I ever get the blessing of being a birth mother I do plan on breastfeeding but I will be considerate of others and probably end up being as discreet as possible. I personally think malls and other places need to set up feeding rooms in case a mom is not comfortable doing it in public even though I have no problems with seeing a mother discreetly feeding her child.

As far as the breastfeeding vs formula issue goes, I agree that should be another forum. But here is my two cents on that: Every mother is different. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Some mothers choose bf'ing because they can. Some mothers choose formula because they physically or medically can not breastfeed or just don't feel comfortable breastfeeding. There is no need to bash formula or breastmilk on here. If I were an adoptive parent I would have taken offense to the comments made about formula on here because if Steve and I adopt an infant that is what we would have to do...use formula. It may not be as good as breastmilk, as some studies show, but it is the only choice I would have. And if we get blessed with our own biological child, I plan on bf'ing but I wouldn't dare come on here and offend anyone who uses formula.

That's my 2 cents worth

Let's just say that the lawyer isn't as smart as you would like to think someone with her education should be. I do think that the mother should have asked, since it was a private office, simply out of courtesy.

I won't go into the whole breast v formula issue because it will just start things up again.