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Major sleep issues...help?

post #1 of 25
8/28/06 at 12:50pm
Thread Starter 
Well, Zach has been having major sleep problems. It started a few weeks ago right around 25 months old. We co-slept until Zach was 6 months old then he went inti his crib in his own room. He was a wonderful sleeper his whole life. If he ever woke up during the night we KNEW he was sick. That's how good he was. He would wake up and play in his crib for an hour. He would have a bath, read a story then say good night and we'd leave. He'd play in his crib or go right to sleep.

Now, he screams and cries and begs us to stay with him. He started climbing out of his crib. He fell once and then we stopped putting him in. We locked the bathrooms and stair gate so he'd be safe but we were still worried. We put bed rails on his bed and a stair gate in his doorway. Last night it took many tears and many visits and finally Mike staying there until he fell asleep. Then he woke up around 3 and was screaming for us "Help me, Where are you Momma, Where are you Daddy? Over and over. Mike stayed for awhile but since he's a sucker and Zach knows it Zach decides at 3 am to play. Mike let him. I heard Zach toy drill at 3:30 and I went in and kicked Mike out who has to get up at 5:45 and I told Zach to get in bed. I left and he screamed again. I ended up sleeping in there with Noah on the other twin bed.

Now, my questions...
1) Should we remove the crib totally? He has two twins in there too. The crib makes into a toddler bed. I wonder if we should have just done that first b/f the twin. Too late now b/c Mike already installed the bed rails and I could use the crib in the nursery for Noah to go in while I shower etc.
2) Should we lay down with him to go to sleep and when he wakes? I hate to see him so distressed but don't want to encourage this behavior. On the other hand--maybe he just needs support through a difficult time...this is what Mike thinks and I am starting to agree.

What I am leaning towards is staying with him as long as he is trying to sleep--laying down, etc. Not playing or out of bed. The problem is we don't mean to stay all night but we're so exhausted that we fall asleep in there and end up there all night. What I noticed is that when I was in there Zach would wake up and start to cry until he noticed i was there then he'd drop back onto his pillow and fall right asleep. HELP!!! We're going
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post #2 of 25
8/28/06 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
BTW, I start back at work Tues after Labor Day. I am praying we've reached some happy medium by then.
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post #3 of 25
8/28/06 at 1:00pm
is he old enough to believe in Monsters? My dd never had a monster problem, but she does like to sleep in a room with the light on. We turn off the light after she's fallen asleep. My dd has never been that great to fall asleep, but once asleep, she'll sleep for about 10 hours. I feel your pain. We have so been there with Kate.

I don't know if Zack likes monsters, inc, but that movie might help him with his fears if he is having monster fears.
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post #4 of 25
8/28/06 at 1:03pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks. No monsters yet. Well, maybe Elmo but he' snot afraid of them. But I'll keep that in mind. It's more of scared of being alone type thing. He never was like that before. He has two night lights and a fish lanp that looks like an aquarium on all night. It's so bright in there I can't sleep

Did you stay with Kate and did it work itself out?
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post #5 of 25
8/28/06 at 1:09pm
Often she sleeps in the same room with me just not in the same bed. Maybe a pallet on the floor in your room will work. Then you can move him to his bed or leave him as you choose, but he's not in your bed. Just until he realises he can sleep in his room by himself.
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post #6 of 25
8/28/06 at 1:21pm
jacob still has problems sleeping at times and he's 5. I usually get him to sleep and then move him. it works for us.
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post #7 of 25
8/28/06 at 1:47pm
As you know... I'm wondering how to handle Delaney.

However - the only tip I CAN give is DO NOT LAY WITH HIM to get him to sleep.
This is the "mistake" we made with Kyler.
Kyler has NEVER gone to sleep by himself since he's moved to a "big boy" bed. NEVER.
We have to lay with him to go to sleep. And in the middle of the night when he realizes he's alone he either will come and get one of us to go BACK into his room. OR (99% of the time) just crawls between the Dan and I in my bed.

We are trying to break him of this habit now. (Dan more so than I. )
But - I can't have 2 kids in my bed! There isn't enough room.



My point - do NOT get in that habit of laying down with him.
BAD habit!
MAYBE - sit in the room in a chair so he's not alone? Or rub his back while sitting on his bed?

Good luck!! I'm obviously horrible at this myself.
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post #8 of 25
8/28/06 at 1:56pm
Thread Starter 
I know Shari. Zach has twin beds in his room and the best he gets is someone laying in the other twin.

I know about two kids in bed. I have Noah with me now. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. ????
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post #9 of 25
8/28/06 at 2:10pm
have you changed anything my son only does this when things change moving a bed in his room any additions to his room
New daycare, new pet, room change at daycare anything would make Will lose it
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post #10 of 25
8/28/06 at 2:16pm
Thread Starter 
Well he has a 4 mos old brother!

Nope, nothing else changed. Zach was great with change until he hit 25 mos. We moved in Dec and he was awesome. No problems at all.
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post #11 of 25
8/28/06 at 2:21pm
Try having the same night schedule everyday and I know how hard and next to impossible it is but it just may help
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post #12 of 25
8/28/06 at 4:40pm
I don't know, but . Jonathan refuses to sleep in his room. Loves to play there, but wants to sleep in my bed or on the couch.
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post #13 of 25
8/28/06 at 5:50pm
i have no real tips except for not to lay with him, because of reasons that Shari said bad habit.

logan will play forever sometimes when we put him to bed. we have always had the radio play in his room and close the door, he can play for a while. then we put our foot down and tell him it is sleep time usually he will crash right away.

i hope this is a short lived sleep problem for you!
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post #14 of 25
8/28/06 at 9:57pm
Abby - where did he sleep when you guys went to Florida??
Did he sleep with you down there? Is that when his sleeping habits started to change?
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post #15 of 25
8/28/06 at 11:26pm
Here's what we did:
Emily co-slept with us until she was almost 2 years old. When we moved her into her own bed in her own room, we did lay with her until she fell asleep. We did this for a couple of weeks. Then, we put a chair by the bed and we would rub her back or comfort her to let her know we were there. We stayed until she fell asleep. We did this for a week or so. Then we stayed in the chair by the bed until she fell asleep, but no touching. After that week, we told her we could only stay for a set amount of time--I think we started with ten minutes. It was suggested that we actually use a timer because she can't argue with the timer, but we never needed to do that. Then we shortened the time to five minutes, and then we eventually put her in the bed, read stories, kissed her goodnight, and left and she went to sleep on her own. It took time, but it worked.
We also printed out a bedtime routine checklist and used it for several months. It helped her to know what to expect each night, even though we had had this routine for a long time, the checklist was a big help. She loved it.
Now since MIL has been here, we have not been doing this, and we are having to start over, but I can tell you it does work.
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post #16 of 25
8/29/06 at 5:02pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks. The problem isn't so much going to bed it's staying asleep. He never had a problem going to bed but lately he wants someone to stay with him while he falls asleep. Not a problem. But the waking up and panicing during the night is bewildering. Mike or I just go back in and he falls right to sleep. I just am wondering if that will work itself out. Ithink it's such a big deal for us since he was a great sleeper for his whole life.

Tammy--We coslept too until he was 6 months when he started sleeping straight through (8 pm - 8 am).

Shari--He started a week or two b/f vacation. But since he was in his crib he would calm himself and go right to sleep. Then the week b/f we left he started waking up during the night. Then in Fl he was in a P n' P. HE would climb out. I told him I'd stay in the room if he tried to sleep (whcih he did) or I'd have to go. He was ok with that. When we got home he decided not to stay in the crib. He was climbing out and we thought it was dangerous. He fell once. So into the big boy bed he went. He wanted to stay in the crib but it was dangerous since we have hard wood floors and his crib is really high.
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post #17 of 25
9/6/06 at 9:07pm
He is at the age where he is becoming more aware of the things around them, how they work, and dangers. I would move him to the twin bed. Put a door knob cover over the the knob on the inside of the door(so he can't get out). When he wakes up crying, give him about 3 or 4 min to try to calm himself, then go in and reassure him(do not take him out of the room or bed, put him back in bed if he is out). Once he is calm, leave again, and then give him about 5 min to try to calm himself, and repeat if needed. It will work out.

I love that your DH was in there playing with him. I know he needed to be sleeping, but I like that he didn't care about his own need for sleep and tried to make DS happy. Very sweet and shows what a loving dad he is.
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post #18 of 25
9/7/06 at 10:50am
I am the last person to ever give advice on sleeping children..... Ryan used to be a great sleeper. When he as a baby and had so many ear infections he ended up in our bed alot, and that habit would take 2 weeks to break. Ryan has been in a big boy bed since he was about 14 months old. He strated to climb out of his crib at that time. When he 1st moved to his big boy bed he did great - it was exciting and he slept in it (it was just a full mattress we laid on the floor, so if he rolled off he was fine)... then he started the same thing - night wakings... and walking into our room. I was so tired I would pull him into our bed- and that habit took a while to break. Then he would stop sleeping in his bed all together- we would have to lay with him until he fell asleep but then he would wake later. We FINALLY broke that habit ... until I went into the hospital on bedrest with Aidan. He started sleeping with Scott and now, over 1 year later ... Ryan is still lseeping with us. I dont mind it at all, but it has to end because if Aidan realizes Ryan sleeps with us then we will have 2 kids in our bed!

And Aidan still sleeps in his carseat at 10 months old ... in his crib... another habit we need to break. Now Ryan is afraid to be alone anyway.

We made some bad decisions (and the fact is, we were AWARE that what we were doing was not the best thing) however ... sleep deprivation makes you do some weird things...

Here is what I would recommend. DONT lay with him... Tara had a suggestion to put the child safe knob on the door so he cant get out, but I had an experience with that with Ryan that he was really scared because he couldnt get out, and it also made me think what if there was a fire, or what if he has to use the potty in the night, or anything- so I dont like locking it too much. I know Shari had agate in Kylers room, but then he would stand by the gate and call her...

OK so here is my recommendation finally ... I have no idea what to tell you!! Just try to stick to your guns and dont give in!!! Of all of my friends who have kids, the ones who NEVER gave in have the best sleepers today... So ... sorry I couldnt help WHATSOEVER!
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post #19 of 25
9/7/06 at 11:23am
Nick stays dry at night(has been for several months now), so he doesn't come out to potty even though he is new at potty training, and I don't let him out because he's scared(he never gets scared at night). Their room is right next to ours incase there is a fire. I did the same thing with Michael and Devon and it worked great, but my style is not for everyone. The main reason I safety the door is to keep them from wandering around the house and getting into everything(or getting out of the house). I know it can be hard to stick to your guns, but after a couple of days he will get used to it.
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post #20 of 25
9/8/06 at 8:21pm
Thread Starter 
Tara--I am leaing more towards what you said BUT he is terrified at night when he wakes up and we're not there. I have a gate in his door b/c we have two bathrooms on the 2nd floor and I'm scared of those.

So far what we do is go in and lay on the other bed until he falls asleep. Usually we fall asleep too. Then he wakes up sometime during the night--last night it was 4 am. Mike goes in then and usually falls asleep and sleeps there the rest of the night.
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post #21 of 25
9/19/06 at 3:42pm
Be careful with the Monsters, Inc. movie, I too thought that since the monsters were good it would not hurt my then 5 year old son to watch it. I thought it looked cute, well it backfired, it made him scared of closets (or any dark room, hallway etc.. because think about it, in the movie there are more mean monsters then nice ones. He loved the movie, but has had to have a nightlight and will not go into the closet till daylight or the bathrooms (since they are dark - ours do not have windows in them). Sounds like something has scared him. Good Luck, try the little monster spray trick, or have you thought about an angel care monitor (like they use on baby cribs) that way he can talk to you, and you will be alerted when he gets up and can go redirect him to bed, my son was small and sneaky so he would sneak into bed with us (mid-way through the night) and I am a LIGHT sleeper so that is quite a task.
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post #22 of 25
9/19/06 at 4:01pm
I know EXACTLY how you are feeling girl. We are in the same boat.

DON" T LAY DOWN WITH HIM!! Jerry did that, and now we cant get him to sleep unless we do that....also, since he is used to falling asleep with daddy.....when he wakes up he comes to our room and climbs into our bed....HE WON"T go back to sleep unless he is laying next to one of us....

I have been trying to convince dh that we need to break this habit (not easy by the way) but its easier to get Nick to sleep that way, so he won't stop

Its hard to get our kids to sleep in the big boy/girl bed....but you have to be persistent, and DON"T change your routine!!! If your routine is bath, story, bed then keep it that way. You may have to sit outside his door for a few nights and keep putting him back to bed but its best if they can fall asleep on their own ;hug:

If you need to talk/vent or whatever just message me......just don't make the same mistake we did
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post #23 of 25
9/19/06 at 7:01pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks. Monsters aren't his problem. I spoke with his pedi last night at noah's appt. The doctor said 3 yr olds (Zach's just lucky I guess since he's only 2) start abandoning infant sleep patterns and move into REM sleep like adults. This involves dreams and any dreams can scare them. Then he's up and expects us to be with him.

He's doing better. He sleeps right through some nights and others wakes up once screaming. My pedi wants us to do our routine then put him in bed and leave. LEt him scream and cry and after a week or so he'll be ok. He said to call to him from our room or the hall and say the same thing every time. Soemthing like, "Mommy and Daddy are sleeping, It's time to go to bed." He said the same thing you said--DO NOT LAY WITH HIM. AS I was having this conversation with the doctor my husband was laying on Zach's other twin bed while he fell asleep. We obviously haven't tried it yet.
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post #24 of 25
9/20/06 at 1:24pm
Well, we had the problem on and off with both of ours, and this is what i found to work.
I would put them to bed and then say I have to use the bathroom (always worked), but will be right back. So I will leave, but I made sure to come back after about 5 minutes or so and kiss them again. Then I found another excuse to leave, stayed away longer, but still came back. I increased that time over the days. Sometimes Jerome would say "you didn't come back last night", and I would tell him I did, but he was already asleep.
Jerome used to wake up sometimes 3 times a night, and I did the same thing. Put him back to bed, then told him I had to use the bathroom. I stayed out about 5 minutes, and when I came back, mostly he was asleep on his own.
Maybe this is something to try. If you find an excuse that he will understand, it works even better.
Also, the first thing I do when they get up, even now still, is stirr them straight to the bathroom, but you don't have to deal with that yet, I guess.
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post #25 of 25
9/20/06 at 4:10pm
Well though he may be waking up scared, the good news is he isn't have the 'night terrors'

Hopefully it will be just a phase for you at this point in time... though habits are hard to break, and now him waking up at night has prob turned into a habit ...

I know how bad sleep deprivation is... Aidan is 11 months and STILL not sleeping through the night... Ryan JUST started sleeping in his own bed (some nights) but he sleeps with a water gun now (Sharis Advice and it worked! ) Just like the wicked witch melted with the water in the Wizard of Oz ... Now Ryan is ready to go ...
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