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Could use some advice

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure what to do or how to take this. I'll give you the condensed version because we'd be here all day if I try to re-hash it.

You probably remember the incident with Jessica a month or so ago where she supposedly called a little boy the "n" word and then it turned into a huge issue. The school never did solve it to my satisfaction, but it was finally put to rest and everyone moved on.

The same boy that started that rumor has harrassed Jessi since day 1. He makes fun of her "mustache", her "uni-brow" and her buck teeth. Because of him, she, at the age of 10, has bleached her upper lip and had her brows waxed. A few weeks before the "n" word incident, Jessi got "counseled" for writing a HATE list. Are you believing this??? Out of 25 students in that class, 23 were on it. When the guidance counselor asked her why she made this list, she said they all think she's strange and made fun of her. Everytime somebody made fun of her or hurt her, they got a check on the list. VERY disturbing. Even more disturbing that they didn't tell this to me for several weeks.

We had a conference about it and honestly, I left there feeling like I was the worst mother in the world. All I heard about was how the counselor or the teacher's mother would say all these wise things which made them better kids, and in turn, better adults. Sigh ...

ANYWAY ... the other day, there was an incident in class. He "supposedly" called her a lesbian. She blurted out that she wasn't a lesbian, but he was. The teacher heard *her*. All the kids around her heard *her*.

She was written up and SUSPENDED for it. After I raised hell with the Asst Principal that nothing was ever done when groups of kids were surrounding her and THREATENING her, it was reduced to 1 day in school suspension. Still not happy, but they said a no tolerance policy was enacted the day before the incident. So I guess Jessi was the example. The teacher claims the reason she was written up was because she denied calling the boy a name. Whatever ...

I do NOT condone name calling of any type. I am not happy she called this boy ANY name. We're handling that at home. I've also had some issues with her being disrespectful, so she is grounded and each time she is disrespecful or ugly, she is writing 100 sentences. No phone or computer time ... no TV except for our Friday night family movie.

So much for making this a short story ....

Although I don't like the way the school handled the incident, I am not at all happy with her for her behavior. Anyway, part of her grounding was that she was no longer allowed to be in the Drama Club. It was that or piano.

Just now, I get this email from the head of drama club. This also happens to be the same person that I had issues with about forcing Cody to sing, so that might be part of my irritation. I'll post the email in the next post.
post #2 of 23
Thread Starter 
Good morning Mrs. Lloyd,

I co-teach the 5th grade drama club with Mrs. Duncan and as you know, we are preparing for our spring performance. Jessica approached me this morning and told me that she was no longer allowed to come to drama club because she got in trouble at home. First of all, I wanted to confirm that this is true.

If it is, I need to let you know that our performance is very significant to the school and that each drama club member has an important role. If she quits now, it not only affects her, but it will affect the other fifth graders in the group. i.e. Another student will have to learn her lines and staging. If you would still like to take her out of the performance, I will support your decision. I just wanted to let you know that she cannot participate in the performance if she misses another rehearsal.

Please email me back today if you receive this message. Since I'm so busy, e-mail is the best way to communicate with me. However, if I don't hear back from you by this afternoon, I'll try giving you a call. Thank you!
post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 
First of all, if she wants to confirm that Jessica is definitely out of drama club, then fine. But I feel like she's second guessing my decision.

Keep in mind ... Jessica is basically an extra. She has TWO FRIGGIN LINES! How difficult is THAT going to be teach somebody else????

And I see that obviously Jessica has not learned her lesson and is only telling part of the story. It had nothing to do with her getting in trouble at home ... this decision was made when she was suspended. The way I see it, if the school felt her behavior was so reprehensible that they suspended her, then she has no business in after-school activities, right???

Any adivce before I fire off an email to this woman would be greatly appreciated! Am I over reacting?
post #4 of 23
Ugh this is a tough one. I think you're the parent and you have a right to decide if/when Jessica participates in ANYTHING. I understand the teacher's point of view, it's probably more of a follow through thing then that they couldn't teach someone else the lines KWIM.

If I were you though I'd stick to my guns about it. Is Jessica upset that she can't do drama or doesn't she care? I feel so bad for her that these kids are picking on her and NO ONE TOLD YOU!?! Is she in counseling of any kind? Maybe she needs to talk to someone.

You're her mom, and you're a GOOD mom, you know what's best for her.
post #5 of 23
wow... I do not think you are over-reacting at all.. and I agree with you if the school thinks her behavior was bad enough to suspend her then she shouldn't be allowed in after school activities.

I don't have any advice just wanted to let you know that I think you're doing the right thing!!!
post #6 of 23
I'm still amazed at how similar Jessie and Haley are to each other. A few years back I found a small notebook in her bedroom and on every page was written a name and had a list of all the bad things about that person... for example Brittany 1. Is bossy 2. Lies too much 3. Stole my friend
Pages and pages of these lists. I never asked her about it or mentioned it to her but it just makes you realize how much stress these kids are under at such a young age.
I really feel for Jessie. She's at an awkward age and a very impressionable age to begin with and if she's listening to this little brat's (sorry) oppinion of her, than she probably feels pretty poorly about herself. It breaks my heart that even as parents we have no way to protect our children from hurt.
Haley has been called a "lesbian" so many times herself and I've told her that while it is fine to defend who she is by saying "I am not", it's really an immature insult because there would be nothing wrong with it, if she were. Maybe not the right approach, but I've let her know that the children who say that are basically stupid for thinking calling someone "lesbian" or "gay" is a good insult in the first place.
I really wish I had some advice for you but I think you are doing the best things by talking to the school, talking to Jessie, and sticking with punishments.
If only it were as easy as finding things that make her feel good about herself...
post #7 of 23
My niece whom is the same age as Haley and Jessi has also been called a lesiban and had some of those sort of problems at school. However, she attends a DoD school and it is much more proactive and sil has had more success in working with them.

I've heard of and met people with these sorts of lists, but have never done this myself. Then again, I felt like a huge social piraha at that age who stumbled over every situation. I had a list of everyone whom I had hurt in my head and in the past couple of years, I've apologized to those people.

I don't know if this would work or not, and I'm just throwing it out there as a suggestion. Maybe make them make lists of every time they hurt someone else's feelings or when they see someone else get picked on or have their feelings hurt. Maybe it will help them realize that everyone gets their feelings hurt now and then. Even the bullies and the mean girls.

Have they seen the movie Mean Girls? Maybe watch that movie and discuss it with them relating your own "girl world" experiences.

In the meantime, here are some books I have read or am reading that are supposed to help with things like this:

How to talk so your kids will listen & listen so your kids will talk - http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-...6999255&sr=8-2

Queen Bees and Wannabes: Helping Your Daughter Survive Cliques, Gossip, Boyfriends, and Other Realities of Adolescence -http://www.amazon.com/Queen-Bees-Wannabes-Boyfriends-Adolescence/dp/0609609459/ref=sr_1_1/104-7145576-6351165?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176999346&sr=1-1
post #8 of 23
Ok in some ways I can understand what the teacher is saying with the drama club.....BUT it would be totally different if she had a big roll with more than 2 friggin lines!!!! And it was totally wrong for her to "second guess" the decision that you had already made.

I would email her back and tell her that since you dd was suspended, you feel that she should not be allowed to participate in any extra school activities....especially since the problems are arising from the schools lack of helping your dd in the first place, and only taking care of 1/2 of the "problem" rather than both parties...

THere are always 2 sides to every story.....and it takes 2 people to do a lot of things....and for the school to only punish your dd and not this other boy is by no means fair...and what is that teaching your dd.....or the other kids in the class
post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elaine
Haley has been called a "lesbian" so many times herself and I've told her that while it is fine to defend who she is by saying "I am not", it's really an immature insult because there would be nothing wrong with it, if she were. Maybe not the right approach, but I've let her know that the children who say that are basically stupid for thinking calling someone "lesbian" or "gay" is a good insult in the first place.
You know ... that was one of my arguments to the school. I can think of quite a few 'slang' words for lesbian that I would be much more concerned over. Lesbian is NOT a slur, insult, bad word. I'm sure that the word was used as an insult, but come on ... this boy has called her a "faggot" more times that I can count. That's far more insulting, IMO (does anyone else see the humor here that he calls her a faggot and she calls him a lesbian? I wish they'd at least get the genders right )

Oh well .. I guess this is really two different issues. One ... I need to figure out how to deal with Jessi and her lack of self-esteem. I've called and am trying to schedule an appt with a family counselor for that one.

Second issue ... this teacher seems to be second guessing my decision. I'm going to apologize for her having to do more work, however, I can't effectively discipline my child if I let her talk me into dropping one of the conditions of her punishment. We won't even talk about her falling grades, so I feel confident this was the right move.

And yes, she's pretty upset over it. She loved drama club, but truthfully, some of the threatening incidents actually happened during it, so I can look at that has having contributed to what has happened.

I talked to Mike about it when he called during lunch and he was not the least bit happy that this woman was questioning our decision. So I know I did the right thing and I just hope I word it much more appropriately than is going through my head right now ... BUTT OUT!!
post #10 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz&NicksMom
THere are always 2 sides to every story.....and it takes 2 people to do a lot of things....and for the school to only punish your dd and not this other boy is by no means fair...and what is that teaching your dd.....or the other kids in the class
That is almost WORD FOR WORD what I said to the VP!! To top it off, this kid is in trouble all the time for picking on other kids. I don't understand why HE'S not considered a bully, but she is???
post #11 of 23
oh Dawn... I hate that she is going thru this. I think you are doing the right thing, and would probobaly even point out that some of the problems have stemmed from that club. I would definitly take her to a counselor... THe only other thing I can think of is the option of a different school for next year? I don't know if that could work but maybe in a new setting next year could be better.
post #12 of 23
I was think the same as Heather, is it possible to look into a different school altogether? I know here, that if we have serious issues with our school district there are channels we can go through to get our child into a different school district. I would be seriously concerned if my child had a "hate" list at all, but most especially if they had one that included almost the entire class....she must be thoroughly miserable. I know what it's like to be the class outcast and made fun of constantly. I would definitely find a counselor for her to talk to.
As for drama club, I would have NOTHING nice to say to the teacher so I can't be much help there. I don't care if it's more work for her and as for making it hard on the little jerks that are making your child miserable and self-conscience GOOD! LET THE LITTLE BEAST SUFFER.
It seems to be a trend in these so called "bully-free" schools for the teachers and staff to take up for the ones that do the bullying. Of course the bully's friends only heard Jessi be mean....it's always going to be that way, they certainly aren't going to tell the truth against the popular kid. Last year Josh was accused of biting a popular kid, the kid had a bite mark on his arm and another boy said Josh did it. The principle was called in...all the boys were questioned by three different people and Josh swore over and over again he didn't do it. Finally during the questioning the "witness" finally admitted he didn't see Josh do it. and the other little @ss eventually admitted he had bit himself to get Josh in trouble. None of the boys got in trouble other then the jerk having to miss recess. I was never called. Josh came home in a hideous mood, very angry and argumentative and it took me half the night to find out why. I was P!SSED! I had conferences the next day and gave the teacher h*ll.I am glad they handled it by separating and interrogating each child, but no real punishment? You want to know what upset Josh the most......no one, not the kids or the teacher or the principle, ever apologized to him, not for accusing him and not for not believing him. Of coarse the teacher and principle amended that after our little talk, but what exactly did the bully and his friend learn from the encounter other then that they needed to get their stories straight better when they lie?
Where are the other kids parents.....why would anyone let there kids treat others like that. I would be making my kid so miserable if I were to find out they were bullying someone,and I also want them to know that it's just as bad to stand by and do nothing as it is to instigate. Makes me wonder what some parents are teaching there kids.
post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks all! I feel better knowing that I'm not totally blowing this out of proportion. Sometimes I just have to wonder if it's all me because I feel like I'm the only one with issues!

She actually will be in a different school next year as she goes to middle school. I've also scheduled an appointment with a family therapist in a few weeks. Hopefully she will help us figure out how to deal with all of this and maybe I'll even learn a thing or two. I just kind of feel helpless these days and Jessi is miserable.

Off to fire off an email to the drama club teacher that I stand by my decision. Thanks ladies!
post #14 of 23
ok I hope this comes across the way I want it too since I'm not really sure how to say/ask this.

First are these kids she's always gone to school with? Maybe she needs a new school after the summer, if that's possible.

Second, if she's feeling left out and bad about herself and she LIKES drama club maybe not letting her go will do more harm then good. She needs something to feel good about, that makes her feel good about herself.

She's at that age were looks really start to matter to girls. Are you spending enough time with her one on one doing "girl" things, if she's into that? I know you're letting her do her eye brows and stuff, is there are things she's self conscious about that you could help her out with?

I don't know, I don't have a girl let alone one that age. I'm just trying to help you out to figure out what's going on with Jessie. I know you want what's best for her. If I'm way off base then just ignore me.
post #15 of 23
Thread Starter 
You're fine Mel ... I asked for advice and I don't expect it to all be sugar coated.

I try to work with her on appearance, but what I find intersting is that she's not the least bit worried about her hair. She usually looks like she has a family of mice living in her hair, but then she's worried about her eyebrows.

As for spending enough one on one time with her ... probably not. I know that's something we need to focus on, but honestly, I just seem to be running, running, running. I know I need to focus on finding at least an hour a week quality time with just her, so you're not too far off base there. I guess we just need to set a date and time and do it. No excuses.
post #16 of 23
oh ok good I didn't want it to come across badly. I know it's hard to do all the things we need to do.

I hope that whatever happens that she and you can spend some good time together.
post #17 of 23
I think you should stick to your guns, if you don't want her to be apart of it because of what happened then just email saying correct she's not going to do it. Hello like you said if they took her out of school why would they let her still participate in Drama class. I'm sorry Dawn that you have to go thru this. I'm not looking forward to my kids getting older and being in school. It seems school is much harder these days then it was when I went. And for some reason the school always seem to help the wrong children.
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn
She was written up and SUSPENDED for it. After I raised hell with the Asst Principal that nothing was ever done when groups of kids were surrounding her and THREATENING her, it was reduced to 1 day in school suspension. Still not happy, but they said a no tolerance policy was enacted the day before the incident. So I guess Jessi was the example. The teacher claims the reason she was written up was because she denied calling the boy a name. Whatever ...
This would have really ticked me off. NO WAY would my kid serve any kind of punishment from the school for that(from me is a different story). It's not fair that he got away with it, and how is saying lesbian enough to get in that much trouble? And if so, why didn't they do something when the group of kids were threatening her. Somethings definitely not right.

I think the drama club teacher needs to mind her own business. You are the parent, and she'll just have to deal with your decision.
post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz109
I haven't read all the responses and don't know what your outcome was.


About everything else, it just breaks my heart because it sounds like everyone is picking on her/that she's super self concious. This happens alot with Ethan. Not to the extremes of what Jessie is dealing with, but basically the same thing on a lower scale. HOWEVER, when I confront the teacher about it, she says everyone in class loves Ethan That he was voted president of student counsil and EVERYONE voted for him except 1 kid in their class (out of 23).
The EXACT same thing happens to us! And it has for years. She comes home crying, I call the teacher or stop by the school, and I hear "but everyone LOVES Jessica!" OK .. then why the hell is she crying and telling me the kids thinks she's strange?? Why does she insist on bleaching her upper lip and waxing her brows? Why does she have a HATE list for pete's sake??? Then when they find this crap, they call ME in for a conference and tell me they are concerned about her.

So why the hell weren't they concerned when she went to them or I went to them and said there was a problem with the other kids making fun of her???? Honestly Liz ... do you think that maybe our kids *think* other kids are making fun of them? Perhaps *they* are so self-conscience about something about themselves that they just imagine the kids are picking on them????

Sometimes I think back to when I first started at the gym and I was by far the heaviest person in there most days. I used to think to myself that everyone was probably laughing at the fat chick on the treadmill and making jokes about whether or not I was going to knock myself out. Truth is, no one ever said anything and most of the time, no one even looked at me. *I* was so self-conscience that I just assumed they all were making jokes.

ANYWAY ... we have an appt with a family counselor in two weeks, so if I learn anything useful, I'll be sure to fill you all in. Thanks again for the support ladies!
post #20 of 23
Thread Starter 
It's really odd because I have similar issues with Cody, but with everything he has going on, I expect that. The funny thing is, he can't pull that "they don't like me" or "they call me names" stuff on me because I've seen him in school. Literally .. he walks down the hall and kids AND teachers from every grade level say hi to him or high-five him. I KNOW his is all in his mind (at least most of it).

With Jessi, I just don't know. I've seen her at 'work' too and she just doesn't have a great track record with other kids. I'm actually quite excited to see if this therapist can help us. At the same time, I'm terrified she'll think we're horrible parents and have our kids taken away. That's probably why I've never asked for help before. I'm always afraid they'll say it's MY fault and that I have no business raising kids.

Hell .... maybe *I* need the counseling.

Anyway, I'll keep ya'll posted and hopefully we'll all learn a few things along the way!
post #21 of 23
Are you parents allowed to do playground duty at the school? When I do I see what is going on and how my daughter is ignored or how these kids are nice to my face but mean as heck when they think I am not looking. I dont play this game. Yesterday I heard the older kids playing basketball and someone shouted "you suck" then someone shouted back "your momma sucks". You know this is only them playing on the playground BUT if this language is accepted then where do you draw the line? I told on them and they brought all of them there and they denied it but you know what? It is the fact that they know I wont tollerate it and neither will the teachers.

Back to the kids being picked on also. Brittany came home one day just irrate. Finally after we were fighting I asked her what was wrong. She starts crying saying that she wanted to just die because the kids were making fun of her. Picking on her and not being nice. I am sorry but I went to the principal that day and told her what happened and that this is unacceptable. She took all those kids aside and told them that they might not have to like everyone but you do all have to get along and there is NO name calling.

Now on to Brittany and her attidude. Shoot me now because I am at my wits end She has such an attidude and drives me up the wall that I just dont know what to do. She has this mothering attidude with her brother that constantly I tell her Brittany please stop. Finally yesterday I put soap (dab on my finger) in her mouth. She Does not talk to the teachers like that and I dont expect to be treated like that either.

With Jessie I would seriously look for a different school. If she is that miserable I wouldn't put her through it. The people running the school seem not to have there brains in the correct location of their body. I would tell the drama teacher to take her two lines and find someone else. Did her not being in Drama bother her? Dawn for you because gosh how can we protect our kids.
post #22 of 23
I don't think you're bad parents at all, Dawn. We had to fill out literally dozens of questionaires and be evaluated ourselves when we took our dd to the Youth Center. I've seen bad parents and they aren't there, because they don't care.

It could be that all kids that age feel like they are being picked on and singled out. I know that my niece does and she has so many boyfriends, I told her mom I was concerned that things might be going too far.

I think boys are at a weird age then and say mean things to girls when they really like them. You know, I like you, so I'm going to be mean to you and if anyone notices, I'll deny it. I know that one boy made bad fun of me for years and called me awful names. Let me tell you, this method did not work. It just made me see him as an immature jerk.

Maybe this boy has a crush on her.
post #23 of 23
I KNOW Haley is extremely self concious. She's thrown away clothes before that SHE picked out and loved because someone said something about them. She died her hair black and it was gorgeous and she loved it until she started being called a goth at school. She just can't handle people talking about her in any way. I've even made comments to her that were only in fun and she has started crying because it hurt her feelings.
She's been seeing a therapist since before Christmas and it is doing wonders for her. Of course she has gotten snottier in her self confidence but I'll take a smart @ss kid over a depressed one any day. I couldn't handle her constant tears... it just broke my heart.
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