Sect children placed into temporary foster care

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

I understand what you mean, Elaine, but those mothers also marry off their babies at 13. They aren't protecting them either.

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

Not to mention the mothers were offered to stay with their children and go to a shelter and they refused. The left their babies and returned to that horrible place!

THEY LEFT THEIR BABIES!!!!!

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

This isn't quite right. Only mothers with children 5 or under were allowed to remain with their children. The rest were given the choice of returning to the "ranch" or the state would put them in a shelter. They were FORCED to leave their kids - they didn't want to and have complained quite loudly to the state and the media about it. Right now they are doing DNA testing to try to figure out which child actually belongs to which mother and which father, The testing is goi g to take quite some time and until it is done, these children will be seperated from their families. Unfortunately, unless the state has evidence that they are not sharing with the media, it is all beginning to look like someone faked the call that started it all. They have been unable to identify the 16yo girl who said her 50yo husband was abusing her.

I understand that they have to make sure that all of the children are safe and not being abused in any way, but they should have thought about the whole logistics thing a long time before they took this operation on. They have been watching them for years and waiting for something to happen, so you would think they would have had a contingency plan in place. Luckily, the Bar Association was flooded with calls from lawyers willing to represent these children and their mother pro bono, because there simply aren't enough public defenders to go around in a case this size.

They are trying to find foster homes for all the children and ARE trying to keep siblings together. Plus, the homes they are placed in must be willing to homeschool them at first as these children have had NO contact with the outside world until now. They want to slowly ease them into things. Personally, I think until they PROVE the child has been abused, they need to continue raising them the way the parents want them raised - away from the public and outside influences. Not saying their way is right, but they are the parents and if they are not abusing their kids, then their wishes should be followed.

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

Aside from the whole polygamy thing, I don't see how they are much different from other religious groups that choose to withdraw from modern society. I haven't spent time in a strict Mennonite or Amish household. I don't know how common teen pregnancy is among these groups.

They have taken all these children from their families regardless of the mother's age. In many cultures and religions, polygamy is considered quite normal.

I have heard some real horror stories from people who were raised in foster homes. Not all foster parents are nice people who just want to give kids a good, safe home. The foster home can be just as bad or worse than the originial home. Is the state throwing at least some of these kids out of the frying pan and into the fire?

This mysterious 16 year old girl who was so abused has yet to surface and no one seems to know who she is.

These people impressed me with how they were so passive when they were raided like this. I expected they would have some arsenal and come out guns blazing. But no, they just sat down and prayed. There is no weapons cache. There is no threat to national security (unless you consider cheese threatening ). I really thought they were some sort of commando, tax protesting, antigovernment types. But no they're just a bunch of rather timid people practicing a religion that is out of the mainstream aways.

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

It's not the polygamy thing that is the problem......it's the fact that 31 or the 53 teenage girls between the ages of 13-17 are pregnant and or have children. It's the fact that they teach their children that having "heavenly relations"(they don't know the true names of body parts or sex acts....it's referred to as heavenly relations) are not only ok with adults, but that it is an honor. It's the fact that the onset of puberty is considered adulthood....and when the teen girl hits it, she is married off...sometimes to fairly close relatives from what I understand.
They can't place charges yet, because as of now the adult men(and I use this term lightly) are all basically scattered and in hiding....none will come forward, and the only ones being allowed to be seen are the younger ones that are just starting their "collection" of wives. None of these older men will claim there wives and children because they know it's illegal.
I am all for freedom of religion, but NEVER at the cost of molesting, raping, or hurting children.
Children have no "freedom of religion" until they reach adulthood(and in this religion they never leave the compound and NEVER have freedom of religion), and it's societies job to at least try to protect them till the can reach it.
Another really crappy factor is how much money we, as a society are forking out to sustain this so called cult. When the men marry their first wife they are financially responsible for them, each of the other wives are sent out to collect welfare. I think I heard that a good 60% of the women receive welfare....and these men get away with collecting all these checks because in the eyes of our legal system they belong to these women, because they are unmarried (since our society doesn't acknowledge these marriages as a legality and they aren't on record)and supporting their kids.
So we as a society are paying these men to keep there women and children, to molest and rape there babies, and to live any d@mn way they please.

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

I am just a real child of the 70s. Getting back to nature and rejecting modern society holds a romantic place in my heart. I remember the days of the love ins and people selling everything and moving into a rustic cabin in the woods.

I didn't know about the welfare checks. That, IMO, is not right. In most cultures with polygamy, the man has to pay for all his wives and can only have the number of wives he can afford. He has to treat them all exactly the same. So if one gets a diamond ring, they all get a diamond ring of equal value. But the only contact I have had with polygamists has been in the Middle East With Islam. It may not be the same every where.

Bridget, you have lived around the Amish more than I have. What do they teach their children about sex? What are their views on the onset of adulthood? Whom do they marry? Do they marry within their own community or do they go to other Amish communities to find a spouse? In other words, outside the whole polygamy thing, how is their lifestyle different than these people?

The whole rejecting modern society thing doesn't bother me at all. I have respect for people who can take care of themselves and their families without all these modern gadgets. It's that whole "if the big bomb blew society to kingdom come and I survived" thing that we children of the 60s and 70s think about from time to time.

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

Like I said, I don't care much how many wives they have, or how they choose to live....as long as those wives are over age AND consenting AND they support them all. I for one will never condone any kind of sex with kids and I certainly don't want to be paying for it.

As for the Amish, from what I have seen the married people may be young, but not underage. I do know they have strict courtships, can not be alone with the opposite sex till they are married, and a divorce rate is practically non-exsistant. They are pretty much a culture amongst themselves and you don't really get to see the inner workings other then from a distance. Some are stricter then others, and I do know they marry amongst there own communities as well as surrounding communities withing the Amish, though not usually outside the Amish unless they choose to leave. I believe there are still some "arranged" marriages, but from what I understand these are more like..."ok, we want Jonny to marry Sally when they are older so we will put them together as much as possible as children and young adults and make them think it's there idea" type of thing. I don't think(other then maybe really strict ordnungs) that it is usually forced. I am sure there are abuses and such as with any community. They aren't much different culture wise from the other self contained cultreligions,other then they have a traditional "one man, one woman" marriage, and that there marriages are legally documented. They pretty much are a self contained unit, but they still follow similar laws as the rest of us, some of which or a lot more strict and severe. They, as far as I know, don't want handouts from our government and tend to take care of there own...they stay away from our society, yet the more modern ordnungs(sectors) allow their children to see and to some extend experience modern world.....then they tell them how bad it is....
As for their teachings on sex, I don't know. From what I have seen and read they are pretty strict about the premarital sex thing. Their children probably have a pretty good knowledge of the workings and body parts though, because they see it first hand from a young age with in the workings of farm life. The seem to be a god-fearing, law abiding self contained peaceful people, who work and live next to, yet apart from modern society...they don't hide from it or behind it, they just don't want to be a part of it.
Honestly I think the polygamist in this county hide behind that as a religion to get away with a lot of crap. From what I have heard and read, this particular compound has had a pretty lucrative scam going(at least for the men) for a long time, and it's likely there are a lot more that are the same way.
True polygamy, where the wives are treated equally, where you only have as many as you can afford to maintain and support, where they are all of consent and of age really isn't the issue here, it simply the gross and horrific abuse or those little girls, the brainwashing, and the money scam that is making this a nightmare. If these so called men don't think what they are doing is wrong...if they didn't know it was illegal and disgusting, they would stand up and step forward, instead of running and hiding and playing dumb.

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

Thanks Bridget! I know next to nothing about the Amish except every once in awhile, they come here to go to Wendy's.

True, one of the whole points of living off the land and all that is to be completely self sufficent and not to rely on anyone for anything.

You are probably very right about this group. However, if they gave up their sicko sex ways with kids and the welfare and still wanted to be consenting adult polygamists living in the old fashioned way, then I would have no problem with them. i do, however, have a problem with child molesting and welfare fraud.

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

There are quite a few different opinions of these people. i say these people because some call them mormons, while they are actually a disowned unacknowledge version of mormon.

There is a polygomist colony an hour from my home. I don't think they are quite as extreme as Eldorado or Coloroado springs az. it is very dishartening however to see a girl that looks twelve caring for a child that you know is hers. they work for their families without getting paid.

personally they have killed our local economy, we are a logging area, and they have undercut and taken over EVERY contract in the area for cutting down trees. they don't pay family so they make money hand over fist. Overall i have no problem with these people, but they do need to have more regulations and some real eduction.

lol they shop at wal mart a ton, show up in a 15 passenger van and they fill it right up!

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

Everything we are hearing about here has mentioned nothing about the women being on welfare. I'll have to do some research, but if that is the case, then I have a real problem with it. Sorry, if you can';t support them, then your shouldn't "marry" them.

In Texas, the age of consent is 16, so there isn't much they can do to the girls who are married and want to stay that way. Also, girls can get married with parental consent at 15 here. And since most of these girls know no other way of life, most of them think this is normal. They WILL end up slapping stautory rape charges against the men who got the younger girls pregnant.

Unlike the Amish - who allow their children to experience the outside world and decide for themselves how they want to live - this offshoot of the Mormon religion is extremely secluded and prefers to have their children remain ignorant of outside influences. The Mormons renounced them years ago. Their "leader", Warren Jeffs, is currently in jail for forcing a young girl to marry an older man. He is also awaiting trial for another similiar charge.

I don't know if they are "brainwashing" these kids or not, since I don't know much about them or their religion. But I do know that the girls are taught to be extremely submissive to ALL men. However, that is no different that alot of other cultures and religions. The difference here is that they don't seem to be cared for as the women in other religions are. The women dress in long skirts and long sleeved shirts - to not show any skin. Most have extremely long hair which is pulled back. In fact, it reminds me of pictures I have seen fo 100 years ago.

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

I was watching Nancy Grace last night and they were interviewing someone from the public assistance department. A caller called in and ask about how much $$$ they were getting from assistance. The person answered that many of the subsequent wives did receive assistance(ie: food stamps, Medicaid, etc) because the men would only have to legally provide for the first "legally married" wife. I don't think that the government wants it to be wide public knowledge that this has been going on, because all the officials when ask try to beat around the bush and divert the questioning when it turns to how much we have been supporting these communities.
I have also seen that many of these sect leaders obtain millions of dollars a year from govt contracts because they can bid so low because they don't have to provide the higher pay and insurances that regular businesses do.
So if this is true, not only do we the tax payers pay for them to feed all these babies and these babies' babies....they are taking Jobs and money from the economy as well....especially from those in Texas, Arizona and Colorado.

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

Wow Bridget, that is eye opening!

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

I stand corrrected. I looked it up and the legal age of consent is now 17. They can marry at 16 with parental consent. Apparently it has changed since I was a teen - eons ago!

Re: Sect children placed into temporary foster care

That just burns my a$$! We don't pay taxes to support those who choose to live an alternate lifestyle. You want to live that way, fine! But not on my tax dollars!

As far as the business part goes, I was reading an article yesterday that talked about how they don't have to pay their "family" to work, so they are able to grossly underbid ligetimate businesses. While I have a problem with it, it is perfectly legal. Sucks, but it's legal.